Connect Cultures

Can I share something? I don't know if you know Becky. Becky Queen of Frocks at [inaudible]. She's in, she was originally in England, and now she's in Paris. She has her Esty shop and her online shop, she's very familiar to you, I think. She's also an astronomer. She does her shop full-time. But then she went to France and she was doing the markets, she had all her stuff lined up and she was like, "I'm not doing very well." And somebody came over and was like, "It's too pretty. It's too nice. It's too lined up. In paris, when you're at a market, people want to rummage through stuff. So you take all of these that you've got out on nice displays and you throw them in a basket and let people rummage through and find it." And I was like.. I do that now. What a cool thing. I think it's the mentality, like an arts market, that's also at a Farmer's market, and there's a vintage market. They do like flipping... It's like a treasure hunt. Yeah, I don't do nice displays. No. Wow. Yeah. Uh, man. That's situational awareness. Yeah, yeah. It totally is.

the idea I want to pose is, "Can we, what happens if we all bind together, breaking down these barriers of art and science, and then we change the culture of our society right now." Because I think you can agree with me, critical thinking is not in our culture right now. And a way to elevate critical thinking could be, a way, this connection between art and science. And then we break down that, and then people are critical thinkers and they want to be part of the scientific community. And part of the way they can be a part of the scientific community is having beautiful earrings like this, and then having that as a discussion piece. Just like people listen to podcasts so that they can talk about it later to their friends. Having these little bitty things that they can carry with them, and then say, "This is what I learned and I know this about this."

when you're looking specifically when you're going to a market, sometimes you're looking for one thing. I'm going to the market to find some leggings. But, then if go and see some science-y leggings, then maybe that could be a point for me to learn. But again, I think you have to have both that time to have that human engagement so that we can then build that connection for people to then have that emotional connection to actually want to actually buy it. So to be able to want to buy something, there needs to be some type of emotional connection towards it. And then Science Engagement can build to that emotional engagement because you could be like, "This is a cool thing because of x, y, and z." But it then takes time,

So encouraging agency in the sciences, which is like what my work has always been about. I think Latasha, you were saying that like, you want to encourage people to get excited about science, because you want to give them a sense that at least for non scientists, you want to give them a sense, like this is a space where you belong and where you're allowed to ask questions and where you're allowed to be an investigator and, and feel like you have agency in the scientific space. And if that's the goal using a commercial kind of outlet for that is in many ways, lentirely at odds with that, because it's about buying your way into a thing, Oh, by purchasing this thing, I have the capital to buy this thing, then I can be this thing, which I don't think any of us agree that's true, but I do think there is like an implicit messaging that's happening there. That's also kind of at odds with where we are in terms of thinking about the environment and our relationship as like stewards of the environment and not like just buying stuff for the sake of buying stuff. And so I wonder if there's a little bit of like when you're talking, I think this doesn't, it's not like this applies to Startorialist. I think it applies to like trying to be an advocate for this type of engagement at large for me, that's like a little bit of a point of friction.

And those kind of I guess kind of specialty shops or I can, me and my mom used to go to those things all the time and it feels like you've been, I go to those and it's a different experience from Aiden to go to Walmart or whatever like a big store, because then you're like going to these boutiques and you're getting to know the people and it feels like a different kind of shopping. And I think it's all about being then there's a loyalty there that gets that you then translate to other people because you're like, "Oh, I found this really cute shop." And then you want to buy from those people and then introduce your friends to this kind of special experience that you've had.

I just want to add as I'm going to come as a person who loves to go to these things and shop. And also I think that when you have those conversations, it adds to the experience. And then I come away with the merchandise that I feel good about. And something that I'm like, "Oh, I really remember why I bought this thing. And I want to shop more from those ... I want to get something else." When I'm thinking of buying more earrings. And I will remember that experience and then want to go back to that person.

General public is just like this catch all term. That doesn't it's not really descriptive in a helpful way for you as a purveyor of both things that you want to sell and a purveyor of knowledge that you want to integrate or weave into a conversation. And the idea that somehow you could just give that knowledge to people and they just kind of want it, I think, as an older model of thinking about science communication, where you're, you guys are experts and you're just dumping it on people that come to you. Whereas I think thinking like who is my audience? Why are they coming here? What did they want to know? And that's primary. And so that should be both primary for collecting information. So you can keep, I'm learning more, and more and more about who is a Startorialist fan? Why are they coming to you? Why are they buying things from, how do you differentiate those audiences?

But back to just the weird nuances, it's hard to explain the environment that I'm in and what I'm doing, but it's a lot of making sure that I have a very gentle approach and trying to keep things on a crafty level where I don't look like a museum gift shop, I don't look like a retail store that would be in Harvard Square, trying to get some people, while it's going to be a small number who aren't super excited about the word science to come in jut out of pure curiosity or because they see an interesting drawing or literally just something sparkly.

How complex these things are, how nuanced, and how much time it takes is something that I think is maybe given short shift from a planning perspective, from the science engagement folks side, but also from the philanthropic side. No one wants to hear, I think about a four-year thing to get to know people and then do a one-off whatever, when you don't want it to be a one-off. So that came up to me about how complex and how great it was that Rick, that you were there invested, and Sarah and company were there in Atlanta working through some of these partnerships

When you first are asking you start to realize that you're going to be demanding so that you will asking somebody for a chunk of their time and for their attention and for them to build something of a trusting relationship with you. What is important to you in going into that relationship? I think Being honest and just being upfront about the fact that I am an academic and this is helping me to get my dissertation and this is actually helping my career. It's helping me financially doing this project. So I can't act as if it's just for the love of the research topic. And of course I'm passionate about the issue, but also this helps me... This is my job, my career. So I think being honest about that and thinking about what my goals and aims were and trying to make their relationships feel as least exploitative as possible. That's what I just try to do. Because I know there's an imbalance in terms of resources from off the top. I just try my best to mitigate that by just being honest about it and also just doing what I say I'm going to do for people being on time and showing up in those key ways, and having that face time with them. I think that's really the only way because people have to decide whether they want to trust you or not. And I think they can only decide that after getting to know who you are and say, if you're consistent and you show up and you're honest, I think that lets people start trusting you and then they want to support you from that point forward. That's been my experience. I love how these conversations tend to go. They get deep and thoughtful and often times some of the answers as you get deeper, start to sound very straightforward. Show up on time. That's thinking that actually... I think behind that is a humility in a sense of your place in the relationship. I agree with you, Ben. That's why I do it.

I think it's the layers that become complicated when we try to integrate an event. It feels like a problem sometimes with the festival also where we're like, we want to go and we really want to have a wide swath of geography of our giant city covered, but we have to find people who are engaged around the big city and who are excited to do this work so that we're not just slapping a thing into a place that wasn't already interested and engaged. We want it to evolve organically. And as you say, that takes time. But I do think that's definitely one of the challenges when you're bringing your thing into somebody else's events and the assumptions that you make about how they're doing their events can be complicated.

It's a very complicated. It felt complicated obviously from the beginning., one of the things that struck us as we started looking at trying to think about organizations, we went through the math and really tried to look at all the businesses so that we could talk to the people at the businesses to see if they wanted to be included. We wanted to talk to people about the science and put science facts at the different restaurants. And then all of a sudden I was like, "It's Sunday." As I made a map and a list of the businesses that were on the route, 75% of the businesses are closed. Which I felt like, "Did anybody think about that?" Like you're not necessarily even benefiting the businesses that are there by choosing to do it on a Sunday versus a Saturday. And maybe that's more complicated with closing the road and whatnot, but I do think that there was just inherent... And obviously, this is a bigger conversation of which we, I feel like would always like to do our part, to participate in it in a way that is productive and while also being aware. It felt like the whole enterprise was itself complicated and we had to figure out how to be part of that. But I think also living in a city like Atlanta that's part of the way things happen. And we're really eager to figure out how to participate in the changing nature of what's happening in Atlanta. But to do so in a way that's a little bit more conscientious and we certainly were very aware of that as we got more and more involved.

I think the other layer here is the whole thing with, it sounds to me, and just because I'm the outsider. So tell me to shut up, is the whole issue of gentrification with that part of Atlanta. And so the Streets Alive event coming there's an undercurrent to all of that, that you're tangentially just swept up in a little bit, with this event. So even if you were doing some of that, if you met a few eye-rolls or some guarded folks, I think that would make a lot of sense from their perspectives. So you have to... You were thinking about that too, but I do think it's important to maybe discuss a little bit of that for this effort

I wonder if there might be a way to build those connections, I think if there's a way to team up with organizations and see ways to make this something that's usually beneficial. So it's not like we're just volunteering and giving a bit of time to this event, but are there certain partnerships that can be built that can extend beyond particular events, and is beneficial to them? Maybe it's probably about just figuring out, particularly in a neighborhood where the resources aren't as bountiful and people are stressing in terms of capital, resources, time, energy. I think about ways that maybe partnerships can be made, it's usually beneficial so the people don't feel like, "I'm going out and giving out my time on a Sunday, when I could be at church. Or I could be doing something else with my family." Where they feel like, "No, I'm doing this because I'm getting from it as well, I'm not just volunteering and get getting more side effects of doing this, but I'm helping to advance my organization, or my classroom or something like that, in some way." Maybe that could mitigate that feeling, "I'm always asking people to do something." But in fact we can just build a relationship and go from there.

it turns out, that's a huge struggle for them too. So I guess part of what I am really interested in trying to pull apart, as this is a learning experience, is this tension between being an organization that can think globally and curate something that is really well integrated because we can think on that global scale. But at the same time, really trying to dig deep into the community and get people excited and motivated to come out and think with us about how to participate in that. So that it really does strike both of those

I think the theme that I keep coming back to is this idea of layers. I keep thinking about that. How there's just a lot to unpack with the ambition of this event on top of the ambition of the event itself on top of the historical cultural context of where it was. So it was really cool. And where I'd start though is actually just thinking about science festivals in general and public science, because as I was coming in this late driving into town, I was just flipping through radio stations and being reminded when you're in a big city, you get a lot of radio station options, while I'm thinking about this big festival event I'm going to, and everything on the radio was about the Atlanta Falcons because they had a home football game and then I parked and rode the train in and it's packed with people wearing Falcons jerseys. And I'm just reminded about how in big metropolitan areas, how much competition there is for people's time and attention. And I know the Atlanta Streets Alive thing is a big deal. But I would be surprised how many people on this train had any idea that was going on. And then to get out into the neighborhood and see it start to set up, was really, really cool and exciting from my perspective. And then I was really interested to meet Justin knowing what his research and expertise was in. So just the setup of it and the ambition of it, was really, really intriguing and compelling to me.

talking about this ambassadorship. I think, that's interesting with the cosplay, because that's something that we talked about a lot on the call, was this idea, of how intrusive can we be? How are we invited in? Is this something that we're going to be okay? And we don't want to be the Steve Buscemi meme, "How do you do, fellow kids?" And I think what we talked about was the MC for the event, Bernie, I think, his introduction really anecdotally, settled any fears in us. Because it seemed we didn't get any pushback from any of the cos players. Like, "Why are they giving out science awards?" It felt natural.

It's a community that defines the community, in some ways, and defines acceptable, and unacceptable behaviors. It's not anything that's governed by a set of rules, other than some very conventional things, that are within local, and State jurisdictions, of obey your laws. But there's this whole other, how people feel about their identities, and it's a really interesting mob scene. And there's a lot of individual behavior, and there's a lot of group behaviors. Then there's a lot of stuff going on. It's a lot of social interaction between people that know each other, and a lot between people that don't know each other.

it was pretty cool, and it was one of these rare situations, where people from a lot of different backgrounds, both socially, and economically, and culturally, were all mixing it up, and throwing a lot of money around. It was worth it. It was an expensive event, and there're all sorts of ways in that event to spend more money, and people were doing that, and that was an amazing piece. There's an inherent value in that, to folks, and what they get out of it. And that the stuff, that Rick, and his crew was able to put there, really added to that whole value piece, which I thought was pretty awesome.

It was interesting, to track where things were sticky for them. And NASA's brand really played large there, in ways that were beyond what, I think, I had seen. Both in terms of the draw, when presenters from NASA were talking about their work, and missions, and stuff like that. And as Bart pointed out in the recordings, this table that had the NASA Meatball stickers, and how that was the prized thing. It was amazing. And there's something more to it, it was taking the fantasy, and the reality, and blending that stuff together. And that, seemed to be fairly seamless, in terms of how people think about that. And so, there's something going on there, that's way deeper than anything that we actually have explored, or been able to explore.

the conversations went so many different ways, that it's interesting that we're still all trying to figure out, how to conceptualize what's important, in terms of engagement assessment. And I think I wrote in some of my notes, "I don't know what we're talking about right now, but it sounds like it could be important." Some of the conversations got so far removed from the events themselves, and so this greater meta-conversation about engagement, and just, yes. We still don't have concise language to really assess these events. And we had all approached them from so many different perspectives, that it is hard when you have a science communicator, and then an actual practitioner, and then a cultural anthropologist. You'll get so many different points of feedback, and I think that, that's what evaluation might actually be missing, is some of the more detached perspectives. Or removed, not detached.

one thing that came out through several conversations throughout the event is very much that we're in someone else's community or communities that have their own rules, and values and concerns, and geek culture in particular has a long history of trauma, and social isolation, and anxiety and otherwise being marginalized, and these are a bunch of people who, especially the cosplayer, are in a position of being exposed and vulnerable. And so there's definitely a lot of landmines for institutions participating in a Comic-Con when it comes to that kind of cultural environment.

I think the biggest risk to me is that integrating science into that experience, you attempt that push and it fails, and you end up triggering the opposite feeling that you wanted, where if you do it wrong, you go into this community and you try and inject your agenda and they recognize it as you injecting your agenda, and that can backfire. So that's the main area that I have concerns.

So my takeaway for the expo is I would really encourage building up relationships and conversations with the people who participate in the con, the expo vendors, the cosplayers, and really step one is just really listening to what they think is a better, more engaging experience and really trying to imitate those qualities or find people in this community that you can empower to do stuff. I was looking at a lot of the merch and there's this process of taking objects or characters and really cute-ifying them and turning them into anime plushes or that sort of thing, and this is really popular and I'm like, "Why is there not a super adorable plush Mars rover, or satellite or something like that that trades on this enthusiasm for merch and collectibility that clearly is there. So I think the important take away there is looking at what the rest of the expo is all about and trying to capture some of that.

Well, this happened after the parade. And it was so profound to me, it was emotional. And it was felt by the filmmakers who happened to be there, it was felt by board members who happen to be there, and it was felt by me. And there was this profound moment when you realize that there's this kid who had been told that college wouldn't be for him that he should think about something else, and was not encouraged really, until he came connected to a hook and the hook was robots. So, you've got this kid who didn't necessarily have the science capital in his background, in his neighborhood, in his family to lead him to a STEM career. And you see him talking to a middle school student, a younger student from Kayenta and Kayenta is a good three-hour drive, at least, from Flagstaff and you see the two of them engaged. Oscar, the young Hispanic teenager is handing over the controls of a robot that he was part of designing and building and is now demonstrating. And this beautiful young lady in middle school has got her traditional braids, her traditional jewelry, the traditional clothing and footwear of a beautiful young Navajo girl, and she is smiling. The two of them are looking at each other. She's making a robot move. And this is all happening right in front of this historic telescope dome. The same place where Percival Lowell believed that he could see and study canals on Mars. So, you've got such a blending of cultures, tradition, history, and in generations and science, all coming together in one moment. And it just happened. It was something we didn't plan on happening. It just came together. And it was absolutely an emotional beautiful experience.

I think that you've also got the benefit of being surprising. Yes, I think that that kind of audience is going to be at least a bit more open to community stuff because they are at a massive community event. But, also, they can easily go to an event like that for their interest in the LGBTQ community and nothing else. Right. So when you present yourself in front of these people, there's something surprising. You're something a little different that is not automatically assumed to be a part of an event like that, so the novelty, I think, can be a real positive.

For me and really listening through the conversation about Pride St Pete, I was just really struck in listening to the personal stories that were shared by the organizers and some of the observers as well, how powerful it actually is to just be present at an event that is about acceptance and being who you are. I found that very moving and very, very powerful.

being in the parade, took some convincing to get the board of directors to figure out why that was something we should be doing. And it didn't occur to me until we were actually there, just how much science is a part of our community and how receptive the crowd was, I

I think actually listening to Kalisha tell the story about how there was like 40 people lined up out the door, and they were kept out until they mentioned to Dottie that they're with me and with Science Haven, and that they were ushered in right away. Just the reflection, as I was hearing that today made me feel really rewarded for the fact that it's not just I have science activities and that's what they are for and that's really our only connection, but knowing that there seems to be something deeper with what we've been doing with Science Haven and the Dwight community to where someone that is intensely protective, and rightfully so over her community sees us as part of it and just willing to sort of light up her face and smile whenever she knows that someone's with us, made me feel really good and feel like maybe we're onto something with the way that we're trying to approach this project.