when you think about science retail, I guess this is a bit philosophical here, but it does get me thinking about, in terms of what it is of science, so to go back to this conversation I keep on trying to circle around, is that there's another element. When I do engagement with science, I've tried to cultivate engagement activities in which I explore the part of science that's about curiosity and about the unknown. And how the process, the nature of science, that's what I have found to be a thrilling source of engagement is to get people to consider what science is. The mystery of science. And there is a philosophical difference between that and other presentations of science as being like the chemical structure of something or the definition of something or a picture of something from science. It's a different type of what science is, but it gets to, it's very philosophical, but what is science and there are a lot of different ways to consider that and it's not just about the different disciplines, but it's also about what's the process of science. Not just what are the results or the discoveries, the outcomes of science research, but what is it in itself,