the conversations went so many different ways, that it's interesting that we're still all trying to figure out, how to conceptualize what's important, in terms of engagement assessment. And I think I wrote in some of my notes, "I don't know what we're talking about right now, but it sounds like it could be important." Some of the conversations got so far removed from the events themselves, and so this greater meta-conversation about engagement, and just, yes. We still don't have concise language to really assess these events. And we had all approached them from so many different perspectives, that it is hard when you have a science communicator, and then an actual practitioner, and then a cultural anthropologist. You'll get so many different points of feedback, and I think that, that's what evaluation might actually be missing, is some of the more detached perspectives. Or removed, not detached.